Some people have reservations about the Patriot Agreement and its requirements. That's understandable, as those requirements are fairly strict. However, we look at it as a group of people who voluntarily shake hands, look each other in the eye and promise, "this is what we will do to defend ourselves and each other." That's not the same as some "higher authority" imposing a set of rules on us.
The thing that makes us unique compared to any similar effort in the past is the option to live inside or outside the wall and participate as much or as little as you choose. You could live outside the wall but still be a member of our militia and carry your gun when you are in town as a matter of personal choice. You could have arrangements made for food and supplies to be stored inside the wall and arrange for emergency shelter also. Or you could just enjoy living in the Liberty oriented community that will grow up around the Citadel. It's up to you.
We believe strongly in freedom of choice.
There are definite benefits to living inside the wall, such as greater security, especially during a collapse scenario. There are other benefits to living outside the wall, such as the ability to live on a larger property. It is your choice to decide what trade off of costs versus benefits best serves your needs.
It's very important, though, to always remember that the fundamental purpose of the Citadel is survival in a collapse scenario. There are many benefits to living in a Liberty oriented community in the mean time, but don't ever forget that core purpose. We will defend the Citadel and the surrounding area to the best of our ability in accordance with our natural right to self defense. To be blunt, though, so there can be no misunderstanding, if the time comes that we have to close the gate only those who live inside or have made arrangements will be automatically allowed in. Anyone else who wants in will be evaluated on a case by case basis.
You always have choices. Just remember that those choices have consequences. Be fully informed, decide what works best for you, what is worth the cost and then be ready to live with the consequences of those choices. Picture yourself standing outside that closed gate. At that point, might you be thinking that the Patriot Agreement wouldn't have been too high a price to pay to be on the other side?
VJ
Excellent post.
ReplyDeleteI too think that was an excellent post. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN UNCHOSEN OBLIGATION, and you are making it perfectly clear that the Citadel is not built of any such fantasies. It's up to each individual to CHOOSE whether he/she wants to ACCEPT such obligations IN RETURN for the benefits perceived.
ReplyDeleteI know that's repetitive, but I thought it worth repeating. It's also an endorsement of full transparency, which I personally believe will prove to be a key principle going forward.
Thanks Jim.
DeleteThat was THE point of this post.
BTW, your comments have been very influential on me as we have developed this idea. It would have been very easy to fall into an authoritarian mode of thinking instead of striving for consensus.
The most lofty ideals can slip into compromise if you are not vigilant (or have a handy internet conscience keeping you on the straight and narrow).
Dictatorships are so much easier to run. ;-)
VJ
Thanks. Yeah, that's why I like business---very hierarchical, and not a lot of debating.
DeleteAs to compromise, that's one of the biggest cons of the intellectuals. Hell, they carry it all the way to epistemology...nobody can be really sure of anything, so the story goes. Everything's a shade of gray; no black and whites, they say. I say step in front of a speeding Mack truck and see if the result isn't "black and white."
They're a joke. So when good compromises with evil, which side stands to gain from the other? Contrary to what the "experts" say, this ain't rocket science.
I suppose that I am an "intellectual" for supporting the Citadel but choosing to move and live near instead of within the walls. I would like to live on a large plot of land. My understanding is that this won't be an option within the walls. My only objection is that I believe the Citadel NEEDS it own farm; regardless of how many people grow gardens.
ReplyDeleteThe way I see it, unless crime is rampant near St Maries, ID; arranging to use the Citadel as a likely refuge if/when the SHTF in Benewah County, but retaining my independence until then, is the best of both worlds.
I can no longer find the Patriot Agreement, proposed or otherwise; but I do remember having firm objections to ALWAYS be armed when in town, go to the monthly training/shoots (although I will get plenty of practice on my own anyway), and I believe being required to have someone else teach my future children how to shoot (I think). There were three that I remember.
If everyone else wants to conform to those standards, then it doesn't bother me. The Patriot Agreement, without detracting from my support and affirmation that the Citadel is a shining light in a darkening nation, isn't for me.
Partisan: The final Patriot Agreement will be published this week, with several other Citadel related topics as there is considerable Citadel movement ready to happen.
DeleteThe requirement to be armed (sidearm) in town center is for PR for our tourists. Monthly musters will be required for anyone on Citadel land, inside or outside the walls. The Citadel is a martial endeavor, and learning to work together in coordinated defense takes training. No worries for anyone not living on Citadel land, as they won't get inside when the gates close anyway.
Larger plots will be available on Citadel land outside the wall (up to 20 acres, I think). As to others training your children, the mandate is that all children be taught safety and marksmanship, and that parents are always invited in school to work with their children rather than just a teacher. Home-schooled children in the Citadel still have to learn, but obviously it is only the parents who will teach, unless they request a third party.
It's not for everyone.
III
No question we will need the farms. And, it will be in our best interest to defend all the farmland around the Citadel to the best of our ability.
DeleteWe need good people like you to be part of the larger community around the Citadel. There is significant mutual benefit to creating a large, Liberty oriented community. The Citadel isn't for everyone, but it will be the core that attracts and supports good people in the area.
We appreciate every individual who supports Liberty and don't view anyone inside or outside the wall as taking the "better" approach. There is no one right answer. We each contribute in the way that makes the most sense to us. That is the crucial factor that we stress over and over - freedom of choice, voluntary association and voluntary action.
VJ
One more thing. As far as children go, we agree that parents should always be the final authority on the education and training of their children.
DeleteWe intend to have our own private school but anyone who wants to could home school their children or send them to a different school.
The goal, however, is to have everyone inside the Citadel property trained in the safe use of firearms, including minor children who are mature enough to learn. That means there will be some type of basic qualification test required, probably by age 16, regardless of what other schooling they have had.
VJ
You all are fricking nuts. Have any of you ever wondered why there is no farming other than wheat around Plummer? The soil is shit here. It can and does freeze every month. at best you get 2 months of prime growing. You cant just move up here & live off of the land. Theres a reason there's only 9400 people living here. You are selling people a fantasy with a fancy web page. Come up here in Nov-March and sell your snake oil. Ever driven on ice around canyons & lakes? Theres no street lights here folks.What we do have is the largest population of wolves in the lower 48. Think about what you are doing. In my time here I have seen 100's of dreamers come & go. This is a hard place to live. Especially for spoiled rich city folks.
DeleteAnon 9:59
DeleteOnce again, if you would take the time to read what we are trying to do you would know we don't plan on "living off the land."
Yes, we have winter here, just like everyone else in the northern tier states of the country. As for not having street lights? Come on. Unless Plummer tore them all out since I was over there last week, St Maries the week before, along with CDA, I think you are stretching that a bit. I don't mind someone disagreeing with me, but at least have the information before you start. BTW, I am not spoiled, rich, or city folk.
I'm not talking about the street lights in the towns. You know what I mean. Drive the road between ST. Maries & Plummer or up the Joe or hwy 3 south. You think for a minute that's an easy drive. Now add some black ice, snow, rain, logging trucks, deer, elk, moose. Ever wonder why theres crosses around the roadways? My point is your not being truthful to people who have no idea about the harshness of this land. Is anyone in your group an engineer or geologist, biologist, ag expert? or all ex mil? Tell them about the snow we had 3 yrs ago over 15' or that it can get 15 below here. I read nothing about studded tires or needing a tractor to push snow or about deer-proofing your garden or what kind of 4x4 is needed. Do you know how much wood you need for the winter? These are make or break items. not some damn bed & breakfast or a outdoor amphitheater. Your dreaming
DeleteNitewatcher I do understand what you are talking about. I live in the area and I have for 22 years. We heat with wood, and we live out of town without streetlights, although we do keep the yard light on year round because of the wolf problem.
DeleteWe're not trying to step on anyones toes, we're not trying to make enemies, we're just trying to live and let live. If you have time please read the new post up at this site.
Nitewatchers comments, while at times, frustrating, are completely necessary for adequate debate. People interested in this idea need to be aware of what they're getting into and a summer visit to the site development is not the whole truth. Winters can be rough, depending on elevation, but, heck, even California gets floods and snow. Winter weather is variable and can depend on micro-climates. The entire county did not experience 15 feet of snow at once. The idea that a bunch of rich cityfolk are going to show up and live in Utopia is hilarious but not a realistic criticism of this project. Rich cityfolk like investments that have some sort of insurance, a back door, a guarantee. People have a responsibility to do their own research and find out what they are getting into. Most of Benewah County is more mild than where I live now, so nitewatchers comments are entertaining to me, but others may find them enlightening. Sometimes your best support is your biggest critic.
DeleteI agree.
DeleteI don't understand where the idea that only rich city folks are interested in this. My husband and I are working people, just like a whole bunch of the people who are interested in this project.
"No question we will need the farms."
ReplyDeleteOh, darn; there goes my monopoly. Next you'll be telling everyone that you need transportation and communications too.
Indeed, we are going to go all out and demand some of those new fangled horseless carriages and tele-o-phones too!
DeleteThere goes my string and tin can Citadel Communications contract... ;)
DeleteFolks both inside the Citadel and outside will be vital, methinks.
ReplyDeleteThe larger and more vibrant the community and extended community, the better for all of us.
I'm still noodling through how exactly the family is going to make the move to the Citadel, but I trust that everything will fall into place as it's meant to. Some of which is out of my hands at the moment, as we kind of have to have a location first, then negotiate terms to live on Citadel land or in the Citadel itself, whilst finding a critical niche that needs filled and fill it.
My wife and I have many useful skills but most won't 'pay the bills' until after SHTF, so we'll need to make due and find something that will keep us in bread and butter until then. We don't require much, actually ENJOY living basically and simply, and would be quite content with a small, heated space above or below ground to call our own. Whether it's outright owned, or leased is irrelevant to us.
I don't know where the progress is, but some kind of basic forum software where we could share ideas and brainstorm would be a huge boon at this point I think. That way we can see what the shortfalls are, and find ways to shore them up.
It will also be a fantastic way to sort and collate information in regards to what will be covered and unveil any gaping holes that might exist in coverage. Like, for example, having a bunch of markets is a fantastic thing. Having no one to supply those markets with goods, is not a fantastic thing. ;)
For everyone who has Rightful Liberty in their hearts, I'm sure there is a place here for them. A special niche that their skills and interests would be a good fit for. There's also pre-SHTF and post-SHTF niches to be considered. What I do before the collapse may be radically different than what I do after the collapse. Pre-collapse, for example, my foraging skills are a cute aside and interesting for people as a fun hobby. Post-collapse, they may mean the difference between life and death for a lot of folks.
Just something for folks to consider as they are thinking about and planning their own skillsets and what they'd like to do when they come home to the Citadel.
We will have a public forum up very soon. You're right, there is a lot to discuss.
DeleteOne of my main goals is to make it possible for those who want to live simply and inexpensively to be able to do so. That way even a modest business or trade would be enough to live on. You might be able to make enough from teaching classes, for instance, to provide enough for a living.
VJ
Hi All,
ReplyDeleteI am very supportive of the provisions of the Patriot Agreement. What I am curious about is whether or not there will be provisions for a reduced commitment to the one saturday a month for the Patriots who are currently serving in the military but would still like to lease on Citadel property.
We are working on provisions to address that situation.
DeleteThats good to hear because I think the oath that I took fits in very well with your values:
Delete"I, having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."
And some of us, not all unfortunately, know what this means.
I've been looking at Idaho for years now. I served inbthe army and have worked armed security for almost 8 years. There just aren't any jobs in Idaho for someone with my skills unless you want to work corrections(and that is a huge pay cut and drop in skill level requirement for me). Are there going to be a permanent security force or an actual police force?
ReplyDeleteThere will be no police force or paid security – we are going to be thousands of patriotic, morally sound Riflemen. We may end up having a few paid positions (not sure yet) such as a Range Master. Have you considered starting your own training company for firearms or self-defense, or for any of your other skills?
ReplyDelete