I have noticed every time K throws a line out about churches within the Citadel, everyone seems to go mute. I'm really curious as to why that is? Is that subject taboo? Are you too Politically Correct when it comes to religion? Are you afraid to reveal your religion, or perhaps you don't believe in any religion? Are you afraid you're going to get dog piled if you speak up?
We're going to have to discuss the subject sooner or later so lets just do it. I'll start. Considering the space limitations that we will have within the Citadel walls I do not see any huge cathedrals or temples being built. Small churches of different "flavors" scattered here and there, perhaps. But, I would think that particular church group would have to lease the land/building. I don't think churches should have special privileges or exemptions within the Citadel. Or here's a thought. People who have similar religious leanings meet in each other's homes for their study and or worship.
Personally, I abhor large organized religion as much as I loathe large government. Pretty much for the same reasons too. Abuse of Power.
Obviously religion is not the "glue" that will hold the Citadel together, but the moral fiber of it's inhabitants, no matter what their religion, will be a factor.
Perhaps churches and temples of different denominations would prefer to exists outside the Citadel gates. That really isn't a bad idea.
So, please, tell me, what are your thoughts on churches within the Citadel. I know y'all aren't shy so don't make me taunt you with names and double dog dare you...or perhaps you just want someone else to decide for you? Please tell me that isn't it. I would be so disappointed. If it is what you want, and the decisions are made without your input, there will be no whining about it later.
My vote is to have them inside. As K said, no mosques! Perhaps one building with a room for each denomination - Catholic, Baptist (not next to the Catholic room!), Methodist and Episcopalian? Lots don't attend services any longer, so can't see the rooms needing a lot of square footage. Heck, now where does the money come from for priests and pastors? Perhaps outside the walls, after all! Thanks for bringing this up, Miss Violet.
ReplyDeleteWell, my theory goes along with the Amish and Mormon. Clergy doesn't get paid. They have a regular job like everyone else and if they have the "calling" they do it on the side.
DeleteBut, if that doesn't suit someone, then the people of said congregation have to support their own clergy.
I would guess that it is mostly "don't care". People haven't been reluctant to speak up when they have an opinion.
ReplyDeleteI lean towards outside the wall, for space considerations. OTOH, churches often have kitchens and gym/recreation space that could be used as emergency shelter in time of need.
Land ownership will probably be the main deciding factor.
Also, as posted below, how does this question affect you after the gate closes? Most churches don't have specific requirements for their buildings and could make use of available facilities inside the wall, in that case. This seems like the approach most would likely use.
VJ
As far as after the gate closes, here are two versions.
Delete1. If churchs are inside, yes, they could house people that have come inside during times of siege.
2. If churchs are outside, they could house supplies and patriots defending the outside perimeter.
One more point...if people don't care, then I say churchs go outside. The reason being the space constraints we will have.
DeleteI'm Odinist. Wouldn't be surprised to be the only one there. A church inside the walls needs to be a shared, multi-use, facility. A congregation who wants there own should look to building outside the walls. Additionally I've always felt pastors and priests should work or a living and not be supported by a congregation.
ReplyDeleteRedWulf
I'm not Odinist, but I suspect we agree on many points, lol.
DeleteThis is one of the considerations that worried me a bit when I first came across this idea, that it would be all right wing Christian and others need not apply. I'm glad to see this isn't the case. I'm Asatru, not far removed from Odinist. My values are much in line with what I'm seeing from the folks here, and I think I might fit in after all. My views on religion are basically believe what you like and allow me to do the same and it will never be an issue.
DeleteI like the Multipurpose room idea. Catholic at 8am, Baptist at 11 etc. This building could then double up for Town-Hall meetings as well as a refuge.
ReplyDeleteThis is great in theory and I couln't agree more, but quite frankly the differences in beliefs might be a problem. All you have to do is look in a Catholic Church and then look in a Baptist Church. Night and Day. Although if we could design a structure that would suit all the different tastes, that would be an awesome thing.
DeleteI see it as two options:
Delete1. Use the space as is, or with minimal "decorations" that can be swapped out for different denominations.
2. Build your own building outside the walls to suit your needs
Pretty much....I know I wouldn't want to wheel those statues in and out, in and out...roflol. Sorry, lol.
DeleteWhat's wrong with holding religious services inside one's home? I'm a little new to the Citadel (but I like the idea); so I guess most will be living in much smaller homes? If I am to move there, I would prefer to have my own small ranch/hobby farm. I don't see why smaller groups couldn't form and hold worship services inside homes.
ReplyDeleteOn the issue of tithing, the act of giving is a foundation of several belief systems. Regardless of one's thoughts on the income of pastor's, tithing can support several things; a pastor's salary (because pastors do much more than lead church on Sunday - it's essentially a 24/7 job with consoling grieving families, counseling, etc.) and private charity.
Hey, my two cents and as someone who feels called to that job I would volunteer for that position.
Partisan,
DeleteYes, anyone could hold services in their home, but regarding dedicated structures there probably wont be enough space inside the walls for all of them. Outside the walls should be no problem.
The largest residential plots inside the walls are slated at 1 acre... But again, outside the walls is free game.
Partisan, I would strongly encourage you to dig deep and read everything on this project to get a feel for all that has been discussed and for the people involved if you haven't done so already.
DeleteAs stated before, our community isn't held together by a religious view, thus there are many different faiths and/or non-religious individuals...plus everyone pretty much has a distinct, shall we say, bent of individulism about them. I might be wrong, but, having one religious leader for all of us might be kinda like trying to herd worms. ;)
Oh, yes. I wasn't inferring that I would be a leader of any congregation, much less the Citadel (!). You probably can't tell yet, but I'm on the same page as many of them. I'm a voluntaryist, my religious views are my own and I base my outlook on religion just as Jefferson did; namely that religion, or lack thereof, is between man and whatever he believes in and is of no business to anyone else. I'm religiously devoted to Liberty as well and from what I've read, I think I'd fit in well... but I guess that's for everyone else to decide.
ReplyDeleteMy apologies to you if I misunderstood. Sounds like you would fit in.
DeleteWhat if I wanted to buy land for my church? What if the church decided it wanted to provide services: like helping those in need? With as many people suggested for the Citadel, and a 100% free economy, there will be people in need.
ReplyDeleteIf the government is libertarian, which I would pray it always remains so, wouldn't it be a vital service to the community if a religious congregation and organization decided to open its hearts and doors to those who need it?
No religion or congregation should be provided government support or preference. More importantly, no government should hinder the practice and growth of any particular congregation.
If we are truly discussing the formation of a free society, based on Classic Liberal ideas, then I argue the following: if the religion and/or denomination has the resources and capital, it should be able to buy, build, and support whatever it wants whenever it wants.
We are discussing a free society right . . . or am I confused?
Matthew,
DeleteThe item that seems to be giving the hiccup is that the Citadel land will be 100% private property and those living and working inside the walls will do so on a lease. Space constraints are the biggest hurdle here.
Now, outside the walls anyone is still free to do whatever their heart desires. Anyone is free to buy land and do whatever they want with it in accordance with the laws of the US and State of Idaho.
Inside the walls, same as outside, people will be able to practice any religion they want.
If a church leases space in the Citadel they can operate in accordance with their faith, tithing and charity included. Again, space constraints are the main issue here.
Does this help clear it up?
BG
I am pretty much no-religious myself but you can always find yourselves a retired military chaplain for anything non-denominational within the walls. Outside....do what you want.
ReplyDeletehbbill
Somewhere behind enemy lines,
Peoples Republik of Kalifornistan
It would be good to set aside a building within the walls, divide it into four sections i.e., side A, B, C, and D. Someone that wants to hold a Baptist church will sign up and rent room A,B,C or D and will hold his/her meetings from so and so of a time. Other religions can sign up for one of the other rooms or for the same room as the Baptist meeting but at a different time. As long as they can meet the lease/rent agreement they can have that room and time slot.
ReplyDelete